Kurt Philip


Source: SEOSignalsLab

Pick His Brain!

I’d like to introduce one of our members, Kurt Philip, for our next ‘Pick His Brain’ session and I want to thank him for the participation.

Kurt started out as an SEO in 2002 but closed his agency to focus on CRO (Conversion Rate Optimization).

He has done CRO for some of the big names in the industry performing over 2,000 tests. Kurt also offers CRO done-for-you services and online training.

If you have any questions related to CRO and split testing, please feel free to pick his brain.

Here are the rules.

1) I’ll let the thread go on until he asks me to stop. Theoretically, this thread can continue until the FaceBook stock value goes to zero.

2) Please, no snarky remarks. I will not tolerate any intentional negativity. We are here to learn from each other’s success and strategies.

3) Please do not PM him and bother him. If you have a private question, ask for his permission on this thread when appropriate.


Table of Contents

What is usually the first thing you find yourself testing?

It all depends on the monetization method for our most popular below;

Affiliate sites: Adding mobile optimized comparison tables that have an option for different market segments.

For example, let’s say you have a page reviewing smart watches.

In that market, there will be some users wanting a sporty option, some that are wanting the smartwatch with barebone features as they will be buying on price.

For some it will be the operating system etc.

Not many affiliates go into this much detail when they set up their review pages and just chuck up a heap of options that have good commisions.

Users are savvy these days, affiliates need to provide them with good options.

Lead Gen SItes: I have spoken about this a lot in the past. Instead of using one standard enquiry form.

Create a multistep quiz type form that allows you to segment the users down a different set of questions depending on what questions you need to know.

A basic one is one we have on our website that works extremely well. https://convertica.org/

eCommerce sites: Get your reviews above the fold.

They will have the single biggest impact on conversions.

Add then to the cart page and the checkout page to prevent drop offs too.

Are there any techniques you find work every time?

Sticky call to actions work pretty much all the time

What is your favorite niche to work in?

For me, anything with 500k per month traffic.

I’d be interested in CRO training?!

You can see the training here: http://bit.ly/2MEXy33 . Enter “SEOSIGNALS” in the coupon on checkout to get 50% off.

What are the big 3-5 things that you would tell people to do to improve their CRO?

1. Make sure your websites are OPTIMIZED for mobile devices.

For instance, when a page is responsive and is squeezed on mobile, how is that for the user?

If you have a affiliate review page, how far does the user now have to scroll to see a CTA?

On eComm product review pages, is there an add to cart visible about the fold now.

Mobile users have EXPLODED in the last 12 months but the websites have not adapted to the times.

The issue is that websites are made by developers who are not marketers

2. Again, for affiliate sites, get the user to buy BEFORE they jump over to amazon for instance.

What info do you need them to proved to convince them to say “yup that product it for me”.

While your click through rates may go down, your commissions will not.

You need to be tracking revenue when running split tests to track the actual sales that are made through each variation.

3. Split test.

What about the CTA’rule’ – only one CTA per screen & secondly should we dispense with outbound links to avoid page leaks.

We definitely don’t do 1 CTA per screen. Look at comparison tables for example. As for in content, one CTA per screen is a good rule of thumb.

1) I use VWO for multi variable testing on my ecom sites and won’t run a site without it. Do you have any experience with VWO or another tool I should check out? 2) how have messenger bots affected your conversion rates, and do you have some best practices regarding messenger bots and CRO?

1. We use VWO in house for everything. We have developed a full custom backend using their API that even allows us to control VWO from within slack.

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Its a great piece of software.

Although expensive for newbies.

2. We have only just started getting into bots.

Due to most of our clients being Affilaite and Lead Gen sites, we havent used them too much.

In a year from now I am sure that will change

What are the top 3 changes you advise your ecomm clients, which show biggest improvement in cro?

On product pages try to emulate amazons layout as much as possible.

They run 1000s of split tests a month on theirs, you dont need to re-invent the wheel

Have you come across any specific words that increase conversions? Words used in CTAs. Action words/verbs, use of urgency/scarcity e.g. act now. I’m giving away a free accounting resource (invoice template) and providing the option to upgrade to a saas solution.

It depends on every page and the buying intent of that page.

Also can you be specific with the type of site?

I would test something clear that speaks to the user.

You can PM me the URL if you like and I’ll give you something specific.

What do you make sure every website has for the domain or each page? Example: call to actions every few paragraphs?

What we have seen from running 1000s of split tests is that there isnt a best template that works on every page.

Now saying that there are some best practices.

– Actually have call to actions and tell people to do something

– A summary at the top or “incase you are in a rush” option at the top sometimes works well.

– Make sure the pages are optimized for mobile users.

– Social proof always works well.

– High resolution product images always work well

– Scarcity always works well. “Special ends in 23hrs” etc.

– Sticky call to actions also work well.

What do you mean by sticky calls to action? Could you give a few examples?

Something like this with a click to call or a CTA to an offer: http://bit.ly/2CizrAA

How are you providing social proof? Did you mean the social share buttons that have a counter that show how many shares?

Social proof through reviews or testimonials, or ‘worked with or trusted by’ icons etc

Is the “In Case You’re In A Rush” a summary section title (not a link I assume)? What kind of content would you put here?

We would just give enough information about what we are promoting that the visitors can make a buying decision if they are in a rush.

Sometimes images work better sometimes not.

Need to run a quick split test for that.

What sort of exposure and traffic will you run to a test before you consider it a success? Specifically lead gen.

With Lead Gen, we had a test get statistical significance at around 1500 views (750 on each) because the Variation B (split tested page) was out performing 50%+.

The lower the increase on the split tested page the more views you’ll need. We start to look for a conclusion 2-5k views most of the time

What’s one or two sure-fire ways to increase conversion with “boring” industries aka pest control, plumbing, hvac, etc

The trick is to make it not boring. Online business brokerage is pretty boring, but we tried to make it more fun for Empire Flippers.

Here is the case study we did for them that would work well in those niches you mentioned: http://bit.ly/2BoUS0Z

Do you have any suggestion for Authority Site to increase conversion rate?

Yes many. Can you be more specific

Any case studies or suggestions for law firm websites?

This strategy would work well on a lead gen site for a law firm: http://bit.ly/2BoUS0Z

Do you recommend any wp plugins that are able to make our forms gamified like in the article? Even better would be one that goes well with elementor.

Yeah Ninja Forms and Gravity Forms have both the multistep feature.

You will need to tweak the styling with CSS but the functionality is there.

Which optimizations have the highest impact on conversion rate in your experience?

Totally depends on the website there is no one clear answer do that. Affiliate? eCommerce? Saas?

ECommerce: if you were to prioritize optimizations of overall design, trust symbols, payment methods, missing CTAs, newsletter opt ins etc., what would you put first? it depends answer accepted but if so, could you share two or three CRO surprises, where you wouldn’t have expected as much of an impact?

Getting reviews on the products pages above the fold, on cart and checkout.

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As a default have returns policy, secure checkout, fast shipping trust symbols as well as reviews on the page.

It’s all about reducing user insecurity once it comes to purchasing

What is CRO and how it is different from SEO plus how it works for search engine?

Here is a good intro: https://convertica.org/conversion-rate-optimization…/

Interested in your CRO work and training. Anywhere with more information?

For our service: https://convertica.org/

For our training: https://convertica.org/cro-academy-pro

For members of this group enter “SEOSignals” on checkout for 50% off.

What sort of traffic numbers do you look for in a landing page before testing? i.e: is there a sweet spot of unique visits where you know you’re gonna get statistically significant results without waiting months (or longer) to call tests?

When we look to take on clients as an absolute minimum we will only run tests on pages with 3-5k a month.

Ideally 10k+ but 3-5 if we want to get any type of results in a 4-8 week period.

Do you see chat-bots having any impact on conversions: positive or negative?

Both depending on how they are set up and the type of site.

At what stage of a business lifecycle would you say concentrate on CRO rather than SEO?

Any pages that are getting 2-5k per month should have CRO done on them.

SEO and CRO don’t have to be done exclusively, they should be done at the same time.

Almost all of our clients are doing aggressive SEO during the lifetime of the campaign.

What do mean by ‘aggressive seo?”

Just continuing on with high budget SEO techniques.

Some of our clients are industry authorities.

The point I was trying to make is that you don’t need to do seo and Cro independently of each other.

Which tools do you recommend to help with on page optimization? I mean, tools like Cora, POP? Do they work well? How about the framework for landing pages, don’t want to throw you under the bus, but do you recommend a landing page platform? Like Unbounce? Clickfunnels? WordPress with Thrive or similar?

I like to use clickfunnels for testing basic layouts and running basic split tests.

They all achieve the same objective, just try them all and see what you like best.

How about the tools? any experience with tools for onpage that you could share?in terms of CRO. Which tools do you recommend for CRO (heatmaps, tools for analysis).. Just an overview, since I understand a lot of the success with CRO comes from experience. Regarding OnpageSEO, is this something that is under your radar when you optimize a page for conversions?

In terms of SEO?

Freshmarketer is a good entry level all in one solution here: https://convertica.org/split-testing-software-2019/

Any case studies for a real estate portal. We are investigating a possible property portal in Asia and would welcome any advice for targeting real estate companies to join the portal.

Used to be a partner in a similar business, may be worth us getting on call.

Do you suggest a website or a post where I can learn the average conversion rates for different verticals? Like, what is a regular and a good conversion rate for a lead generation site? Or for an e-commerce site? If you can share this, would be awesome!

This will mislead you some what.

A conversion rate for a certain page will be derived from the users buyer intent.

For instance, a page that is ranking on google for “Best X review” will have a much higher conversion rate than “What is X” for instance.

For me CRO is part of SEO – let’s call it a specialization – , as UI/UX is and becomes more and more important for SE too. Still it’s a more narrowed approach. How do you distinguish SEO from CRO?

I would prefer to call it an extension of SEO. SEO brings in quality visitors.

CRO helps to convert them.

If you had to do a checklist for a good CRO, with what you would start with?

Here is a start https://convertica.org/12-step-checklist-perfecting…/

Have you ever tested the impact of trust badges on cart pages? And if so have you seen different results from different brand badges?

Yes we have, they work really well. We dont have any data on what ones convert better than others however



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