Source: SEOSignalsLab

Pick His Brain!

I’d like to introduce one of our members, Daryl Oberg, for our next ‘Pick His Brain’ session and I want to thank him for the participation.

Daryl is a lead gen marketer specializing Google ads and it’s one of his primary sources to generate leads.

Daryl is also a quality score ninja. Please feel free to pick his brain.

Here are the rules.

1) I’ll let the thread go on until he asks me to stop. Theoretically, this thread can continue until the FaceBook stock value goes to zero.

2) Please, no snarky remarks. I will not tolerate any intentional negativity. We are here to learn from each other’s success and strategies.

3) Please do not PM him and bother him. If you have a private question, ask for his permission on this thread when appropriate.


Table of Contents

Experience with Google’s beta ad type responsive ads? Haven’t bothered with them for any clients, seems like a gimmick.

I have been testing them and I don’t have enough data yet to say they are better.

The benefit to them is automation which frees up time to focus on other parts of your Google Ads management and Google will tell you headlines and descriptions that worked better.

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Automation is something I don’t like to run until I have a good base of data that has had minimal changes though yet Google wants you to turn it on early.

Turning it on too early manipulates data and can effect base data accuracy.

Which bid setting do you use primarily, manual CPC or Target CPA?

Manual CPC in the beginning then, later on, I will switch to CPA or Enhanced CPC.

Having enough conversions and clicks with conversions that you know you want is important.

Your account and campaigns need to be structured properly with automated bidding because Google doesn’t necessarily know the type of lead you want so campaign structure is important.

If I want to do affiliate with Adwords, what would you suggest me to do? I don’t think Amazon would make that much money, so looking for something else.

I haven’t done a lot of affiliate marketing on Google Ads but I will do my best to help with this.

Depending on the product shopping ads could work. What is the product?

Have you had success doing pay per call lead gen for home services? How do you ramp and test?

The testing and ramping up if you don’t run that business is the tricky part.

You could send the leads to a friend or local business owner you know in the testing stages, they get free leads while you optimize for sale.

Otherwise, you can try an affiliate network but most want to know lead quality.

So I would just send it to a local company you know in the short term unless you run a company that can handle the work.

Just so I can understand you better – you are a PPC guy? Do you do SEO or web dev type work too or is your bread n butter PPC?

SEO, PPC, FB ads, CRO. PPC is one of my main services and brings the most revenue for clients immediately.

Long term – SEO, remarketing, and Web dev & CRO is important though and I do offer that.

What are the easiest ways to increase quality score if you have a lightning fast lander, are using the keywords you are bidding on in the headings and copy, have Privacy and TOS, etc. What ninja tactic can you share that might help us ramp up QS?

Negative keyword strategy and use them to keep only relevant traffic to each themed ad group/campaign as much as possible.

As long as you have a good landing page with good copy and content, good ads, and proper bidding this is one that is often overlooked.

For quality score, where do people usually go wrong? What’s your best 3 tips?

Great question!

1. Negative Keywords used incorrectly.

Either not enough which lets in too many irrelevant search terms or too many too early.

Which almost eliminates the ads in the adgroup from ever showing and you have no data to see how to optimize it better. It’s a fine line!

2. Not having campaigns and ad groups with separate purposes.

You need one research campaign with minimal negative keyword filtering and lower bids for ideas – the best search ideas are ones people actually use.

This allows you to optimize your other campaigns better while having optimized ones that get results.

3. They bid too low and don’t plan out the bid strategy (I tossed two in here – Yes).

There are ways to increase the bid strategically by device or region for example which is a good strategy instead of always increasing keyword bids.

You want to drive relevant search results at the right time and the main relevant ones I have found I can fully trust are Device type, location, and day/time.

The other adjustments are good such as in market and gender but it’s based on the account the user is logged into while doing the search so it may not be relevant.

When there is a lot of data to back one of those up then I will use them but I don’t adjust until I have strong evidence they will improve the relevance and increase quality score.

Bonus: The landing page – This is very important and CRO is another art to master along with good ad campaign management.

What do you charge to manage a PPC campaign? A re-marketing campaign? FB ads? Feel free to PM me… Have a small company that’s just getting started that needs help. Not a huge budget.

For Google Ads, a base amount and then a % of ad spend whichever is greater.

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Leaves for scaling, a base rate, and it’s simple. That can include a basic FB retargeting campaign.

If they want a full-on FB ad strategy I charge for that as a separate account with base amount or % of ad spend.

Full on FB marketing requires more dedication than just re-marketing so we take that into consideration.

Do you have any services for this use case would love to try it out?

Display and Gmail ads worked great for a new Accounting/Income Tax office I ran ads for this year.

The CPC on search was very competitive and they really complimented the search marketing.

If you are looking for help running your specific ads or product it’s easiest to PM me and we can talk in more detail if you like.

How much time do you dedicate on your own SEO for your agency?

As much time as I can as long as the content is quality.

I would rather produce less and quality to win the long term SEO game.

If I had to do a rough guess 1 hour a day or more?

Social, website changes, getting reviews, videos etc all contribute to my SEO.

Your ‘Google reputation’ should always be top of mind with whatever you do in regards to content and marketing online.

In the multi touch process of the lead gen, how better is the RLSA works when we compared to Facebook retargeting?

RLSA has the advantage of being able to increase the bid on people who already expressed intent to buy and Google Intent is usually higher.

Facebook remarketing the intent is less but the remarketing is cheaper so they are very different types of remarketing.

Facebook is more for impressions and staying top of mind while RLSA is to capture them in the buying process.

One neat feature of the RLSA is you can remarket to people who engaged with your YouTube channel.

Which creates some really interesting remarketing possibilities if your client has a strong YouTube following or good content.

It could be used to create a custom audience with higher intent based on the fact they consume your content.

One drawback with RLSA is display ad and YouTube placement needs to very carefully setup because otherwise, you get lots of clicks from children of parents!

Facebook is more likely to actually get the video or image ad upfront of the actual user which I would definitely say is something FB is doing a better job at.

In an expensive niche, with a very high CPC, and you create SKAGs, how do you go about filtering out low performing ad groups? (e.g. let’s say you have 20 ad groups, the CPC is $10). If you set a judgement threshold of 100 clicks before deciding if it’s a good or bad ad set, that’s 100x$10×20=$20 000 ad spend required. Any smart work arounds?

Workarounds? Lots of research and know the niche or have some money to throw at ads groups and see what is working.

You need to understand the intent of each search keyword, the value of a conversion, and the place in the buying cycle.

Once it reaches 100 clicks I would determine if it’s profitable at the cost.

After 100 clicks looking at the landing page and ads too because if the ad wasn’t good after 100 clicks it may not be the keyword and you could be getting rid of a good search term.

This is where knowing your niche and having some money going to a test budget will really speed things up.

There are not really any workarounds besides data and knowledge/experience ultimetly in my opinion.

Hastily throwing away ideas saves adspend but I have had to undo it later which can be time consuming as well.

If you give more specifics I would happy to answer those.

The ad groups & kws are carefully chosen. The issue is that sometimes what you think will work, just doesn’t for whatever reason. My question is what thresholds do you use to determine if an ad group is good/bad in high CPC niches when you’ve got lots of SKAG’s. Since waiting for 100 clicks is too expensive. Do you look at something like 25 impressions or something else?

Depends on budget for the client. If they are on a tight budget then impressions and making sure they were in the top position when showing.

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I would give it 100 impressions or 10-25 clicks as a safe minimum to keep costs down if they are expensive. Waiting on clicks is better though if you can because they are the real indicator.

It is going to vary on a per case basis but if everything is carefully selected and researched as you mentioned then I would feel comfortable with the above as a reduced minimum.

What’s your normal click threshold before making decisions?

100 clicks – Unless expensive like the situation we were discussing.

I would not want to go below 25 ideally though.

1 – In what scenarios you believe SKAG isn’t the correct approach? 2 – I want to get into rank and rent model. Do you think one can prosper with Google ADs? The profit margin may go down and it is fine for me. 3 – Have you personally tried or seen someone getting success in rank and rent (or affiliate marketing) with Google ADs alone?

1 – In what scenarios you believe SKAG isn’t the correct approach?

When an account is new and you don’t have much data or are not sure what is going to convert.

Even research doesn’t always reveal what the search term report and conversion data will!

Every time I made SKAGs based on ‘guessing’ and research early on if I didn’t have a proven campaign based on what people actually search for the results were poor for the client.

Add SKAGs as you identify key winners because the more you add you also need to know what keywords to add as negative.

It really does help manage the account though to have SKAGs or themed groups as time goes on.

A good adgroup can be a collection of related search terms with proper use of negative keywords and be a winner too.

Always balance efficiency while keeping in mind you don’t want to make the campaigns harder to manage than necessary.

You just need to get results.

I use SKAGs, Themed Campaigns, and themed adgroups – it varies based on what is best for every account and campaign.

2 – I want to get into rank and rent model. Do you think one can prosper with Google ADs?

The profit margin may go down and it is fine for me.

Yes, it can and it will get traffic and leads.

Any way to get the customer work so they are making money it doesn’t matter how you do it they don’t care either way. Just make sure it’s profitable for you.

3 – Have you personally tried or seen someone getting success in rank and rent (or affiliate marketing) with Google ADs alone?

No. Google ads get people’s attention.

A good marketing strategy still has organic content so you look like an authentic & established company.

Social media, a good website, Google My Business, Reviews all go a long way with SEO and helping people buy.

Ads are not magic they are just part of the big picture and people will click an ad -> research your website etc -> then leave and research you some more and buy later.

You don’t want to expect them to buy after just clicking an ad and not offer anything else.

Remarketing and SEO are just as important.

Tell us all your secrets.

Keep testing and learning.

What do you think of Adwords Express for a low budget client spend say $300 – $400 p/m based in a small urban area? Most people hate Adwords Express but I have been seeing a few calls. Maybe straight up PPC would be double the calls though.

Adwords express for call only and very basic ad campaigns can work better if you don’t know how to fully take advantage of Google Ads.

You will get better results with the full Google Ads interface if you are comfortable with it though.