Jenny Joy Stamper

Source: SEOSignalsLab

Pick Her Brain!

I’d like to introduce one of our members, Jenny Joy Stamper, for our next ‘Pick His/Her Brain’ session and I want to thank her for the participation.

Ms. Stamper is a conversion rate optimization and lead nurturing specialist.

If you can get rankings and traffic but can’t convert, you seriously need to consult with a CRO specialist like her.

I personally know several SEOs who lost clients only because they didn’t understand how to weave it into their marketing campaigns or couldn’t set the right expectations.

She has been working with enterprise level clients and she has a lot of insights.

Let’s load up the thread with questions and she’ll start answering tomorrow. It’s time to pick her brain.

Here are the rules.

1) I’ll let the thread go on until she asks me to stop. Theoretically, this thread can continue until bitcoin value goes to zero.

2) Please, no snarky remarks. I will not tolerate any intentional negativity. We are here to learn from each other’s success and strategies.

3) Please do not PM her and bother her. If you have a private question, ask for her permission on this thread when appropriate.

#PickHisBrain #PickHerBrain

Table of Contents

If you could name 3 things that you see most often, that fixing would dramatically move the needle the most, what would those be?

From a website perspective, cutting down on the steps a visitor needs to take to check out.

Every single page load and click they need to take is one more place for them to abandon.

With that cutting down on form fields is another big one.

Look at your sales funnel as a ladder.

Cut down on the amount of steps users have to take to the top and more people will make it… if that makes sense.

With GDPR just around the corner, what is CRO best practice for granular consent and consent in general? For example, on free resource and content upgrade signups.

As a marketer with a background in email, I’m actually a fan of the changes that GDPR is bringing to email opt ins.

I absolutely hate wasting my time emailing people that aren’t interested.

I always tell clients, you are better off having a personalized 1:1 conversation with even 2 people.

Who are genuinely interested in your message verses throwing 700 flyers out of a helicopter and praying someone calls, quality over quantity wins out.

I’m still testing this out with my clients but I’ve taken an almost preference center approach to my designs.

Phrasing it in a way that they’re excited to sign up and customizing their own experience.

I play up on them being in control.

Using something like, “Do you want even more great ____ delivered straight to your inbox?

Customize your preferences and we’ll send you only what you want.” GDPR doesn’t mean we can’t have fun with our copy.

On this page specifically, I would change the top tag line to ,”get MY free Assurance visit” to establish first person ownership.

Then cut first name / last name down to full name.

The additional signup boxes fall under the fold on mobile (I didn’t check desktop) so cutting fields will bring them into visible space.

Real estate above the fold is valuable. Maximize that space!

Also, I would put one header that says , “sign me up for:” and then list out the content types.

Each box has “sign up” and businesses repeating themselves is waiting space on their page.

I honestly think they could consolidate categories too but I don’t know the specifics behind the content.

You are going to see fewer opt ins with GDPR but keep the opt in process engaging and concise and you’ll see that your leads are much more valuable and you’re not spending time trying to figure out who matters on your list.

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What toolsets and testing processes do you employ for CRO?

Toolset depends on the needs of the site I’m working on.

Optimizely is the one I typically recommend for smaller businesses.

It’s easy to set up your test variations right within the platform, it can automatically track results, and will can determine a winner for you.

For enterprise level customers, I prefer Test and Target through Adobe for a variety of reasons but there are a ton of great tool options out there.

You can find something that works within any budget.

The CRO process I follow breaks into 4 steps (that you cycle through over and over).

1. The story in the data. Not just the data from the business that I’m optimizing with, but also digging into the business goals, the target market, and the industry.

The great thing about all of this data marketers collect is that it tells a story.

I don’t just hit a website and come up with random ideas, I always dig into the data to identify areas where users aren’t following through on the next step.

Are they dropping off on a product page? Or are they dropping off on a landing page?

Or am I sending leads to an office that isn’t effective with their sales calls? Is the lead nurturing process failing?

Where is the biggest opportunity to improve?

If a site has heat mapping (which is expensive so many don’t) that will help me identify where users are scrolling and I am able to dig deeper into what they are seeking that isn’t being delivered on the page.

If the problem is off site, and they don’t have well done follow up emails, texts, or calls then we dig there to find the biggest issue.

The first step really breaks down into finding all of the hurdles and objections for the users.

2. Hypothesis is where I take all of the data collected to outline solutions.

This is where I determine based on the biggest opportunity outlined in the previous stage, what I need to test.

Whether it’s addressing objections based on the customer type, or cutting out hurdles based on page goal, this step is a little harder to explain without a specific use case example.

It could be moving buttons above the fold, changing verbiage to be engaging, simplifying navigation, using sale messaging to drive urgency, building out email drip campaigns, providing new call scripts (and coaching), or even a variety of other things.

3. Wireframing the new test, this is where you build out the test variations, and work closely with clients to ensure it’s still in line with their vision for their company, and they can see the hypothesis come to life.

4. Analyzing results – it can be really easy to get excited when a test launches and you see the numbers coming in but you have to be patient.

You need to ensure that you have had enough traffic to establish statistical significance.

I’ve seen tests look like one variation has blown it out of the water the first week and after 6 weeks a completely different variation wins out.

You need to ensure you’re making decisions off of enough data that you know this is the best choice for the business.

When analyzing the results you may find behaviors in the test that will drive you to iterate on the previous test for further improvement.

If not, I always go back to step one and look for the next biggest opportunity to get those potential customers to convert.

How do you set up and analyse your experiments?

I typically test with Optimizely or Test and Target but there are quite a few powerful tools in the industry.

It really depends on the client, their web traffic, and what we’re hoping to test.

Do you have a specific process for setting up experiments and the variables/criteria for them?

It all originates with the data.

Identifying pain points in the process for the buyers will guide the strategy for the variables.

With most smaller business clients I start with the pages where shoppers are leaving the site at the highest rate.

Look at the step we want them to take next, and outline the best way to get them to the next step. Then test that idea against default.

Sometimes I’ll build 2 or 3 solutions and test all of them against each other and default.

It can be anything from changing the steps, eliminating a step, the flow of the page, or the CTA used.

How often are you testing on any given site, and what would you recommend?

If you’re not running a test at all times you are absolutely leaving money on the table.

Not only do user behaviors change but there is always room for improvement.

The digital landscape is changing every single day and your web traffic behaviors change almost as quickly.

If you’re not testing to those changes to grow conversion you’re missing out.

How often are you testing on any given site, and what would you recommend?

If you’re not running a test at all times you are absolutely leaving money on the table.

Not only do user behaviors change but there is always room for improvement.

The digital landscape is changing every single day and your web traffic behaviors change almost as quickly.

If you’re not testing to those changes to grow conversion you’re missing out.

What are some good phrases to get to the buy now step?

Are you looking for CTA’s I would recommend? Or general phrases to use in your copy?

My response to this would be based on what you’re selling, stage in the funnel, and a few other things.

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From a high level:

CTA’s should be not only above the fold and prominent, but feature action-oriented text. Always tell the shopper what to do next.

Speaking in first person (get mine/select mine) subliminally instills ownership that psychologically impacts purchasing behaviors.

Phrases or copy on the website should be relative to the step they are taking and drive urgency.

Speaking in the first person and playing up on the user being in control drives higher engagement.

If you’d like to provide an example I can give you a few better ideas on what I’ve seen work.

Could you give us some links to some of THE BEST resources available (blogs, courses, events etc) on CRO?

I haven’t personally taken any courses specific to CRO. With that, I am a HUGE advocate of Buyers Legends.

I went to a summit hey held and while I’ve always built out buyer personas to guide my marketing, Buyers Legends is taking it even deeper to understand the entire sales journey as a customer.

I develop personas and write out buyers legends for every single test I’m going to write.

It helps me look at the funnel through the lens of a customer and identify breaks in the process I wouldn’t have seen before.…/2014/11/20/buyer-legends/…

I am personally OBSESSED with the Kiss Metrics blog.

They cover a wide variety or marketing topics so it isn’t specific to CRO but the content they publish is not only well produced and relevant, but also thought provoking and innovative.

Could you give us examples of some of your top performing landing pages? Is there a formula you’ve figured out?

I want to add images to this to explain the layouts I’m going to reference so I’ll break this up into a few comments.

This would depend on quite a few factors but from my personal experience, this layout (known as a squeeze page) has traditionally performed best when the goal is to collect information.

The goal is to convince and then convert, naturally the eye moves left to right so we convince on the left and then ask for the sale on the left.

You see places like Salesforce leverage this flow a lot and that’s because traditionally it works.

Do you use tools like hotjar? Do they help much? What tools are you using?

I am a huge fan of using tools to make testing easier.

Optimizely is one of my go to tools, but I also love Test and Target (though the price tag is hefty).

On average, how long does it take to answer a question about CRO?

On a normal day, pretty dang quick.

When traveling with demanding clients who not only keep you in meetings all day but want to do dinner and drinks after, closer to 4 days.

What are the common mistakes people do, that decreases conversion? Can you share some simple tweaks you made that increased the conversion a lot?

Common mistakes I see are:

1. Poorly executed CTA’s that fall beneath the page fold and don’t drive action.

You should always have the next step visible to your user and use convincing copy to get them to take that step.

2. Failure to nurture leads. For some reason a lot of businesses don’t take the time to establish a solid foundation with their leads and then they are frustrated they aren’t converting.

I will built out lead nurturing funnels that include welcome series emails, text messages, and phone calls.

Show your leads you value the relationship and they will convert at a higher rate.

3. Stuffy copy writing that is way too technical and professional.

Make it fun and engaging. You need to stand out among your competitors.

Give your target something interesting to read. Don’t make it dry, and don’t use words you wouldn’t say in real life.

Don’t talk to them like they’re a business machine, They want the things they’re reading to be engaging.

You’re selling yourself (the relationship) as much as you’re selling the product or service. BE REAL!

Any truth to red being a danger/stop color in your studies?

Unfortunately yes, because red really does draw the eye in.

I’ve found that brighter oranges convert higher without the negative connotation of red.

While we typically associate orange with “caution” I’ve found the connection isn’t as direct and with the right verbiage it drives great engagement.

How do you avoid any SEO impact from split test studies? Do you just not display the variation to the search engine spiders?

There is such a delicate dance between CRO and SEO… lol!

I never display test versions until I have a clear winner.

It’s not worth risking impact to SEO if I don’t have data telling me that the variation is having positive impact to the business.

What does your funnel look like when you get the name and email of a potential customer? What info do you try to capture to warm up cold leads and turn them into converting customers?

Just like your in person interaction, first impressions are huge online.

Creating positive experiences from the very first day will be key in forming a strong customer relationship.

Welcome series emails are my FAVORITE because they get 4X the open rates and 5X the click rates of other emails.

This is the perfect time to continue the conversation in a controlled environment. You can offer a discount or other offer that is “special” to them as a thank you for signing up.

Since I think what I’m trying to convey would make more sense with an example, here’s a flow I was brainstorming in another group is for an orthodontist office:

I would build a 5 part welcome series drip campaign that has educational information/ info-graphics/ Meet us/ etc type mailings to create a positive perception of the practice and build the foundation of a strong relationship.

Incorporating client testimonials into the sends will help define the 1 to 1 relationship with the practice as well.

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Text messages are a little more personal because of the nature of the message inbox but open rates and engagement are really high.

I would a personalized text that looks like it’s from the orthodontist giving a genuine “thank you” for their consideration.

With phone calls, my testing has shown that getting a lead on the phone within 10 minutes of them providing their phone number increases conversion rate significantly.

If they don’t want to commit to booking an appointment on the first call, invite them down to see the office and meet the staff.

People are terrified of those crazy enough to enter the dental field because of the pain and the price tag.

Alleviate some of those concerns through lead nurturing and the close becomes even easier.

What are your favorite CRO blogs/resources/books?

I spoke to this in a previous response a bit but I love Buyers Legends.

I went to a summit hey held and while I build out buyer personas to guide my marketing, Buyers Legends is taking your journey mapping to a deeper level.

It helps you understand the entire sales journey as your customer.

After I develop personas I always write out buyers legends for every single test. Looking at the funnel through the lens of a customer and identify breaks in the process I might not have caught before.

I also love the Kiss Metrics blog.

They cover a wide variety or marketing topics so it isn’t specific to CRO but the content they publish is not only well produced and relevant, but also thought provoking and innovative.

How do you charge client for CRO?

I offer services on a project basis or retainer.

I will always work with a client to adapt my agreement structure to their specific needs.

How did you get into CRO and who did you learn from?

I actually fell into it honestly.

I started at the corporate office for Extra Space Storage when I was preparing to apply for law school about 8 years ago.

It was an internship with the legal team. When my internship was set to end the marketing department needed some intern help.

Broke college student… I wasn’t about to turn down a paying gig haha!

I fell in love with marketing and worked my way up to running email for them.

Around that time the leadership hired Future Now for CRO consulting.

Since we were running with a skeleton crew I was also tasked with project managing our testing plans.

Then we recruited one of their top strategists to come in-house, Melissa Burdon.

So got my start studying under the strategies from Future Now for the first year and spent the following years studying under Melissa.

I have able to refine my skills through expanding my portfolio with clients in a variety of industries.

It’s become my passion. I’m fascinated by understanding behaviors and adapting to those behaviors.

If you could only do 1 thing on a website to increase conversions what would you do?

My response to this is more theoretical because this would vary based on the website, the target demographic, and that targets purchasing behaviors.

Buyer personas convert differently based on brand relationship, the purchase, and a variety of other factors.

Understanding the shoppers behavior as they move through the funnel would help me identify the best change for a specific website.

As a blanket answer I would say moving the CTA above the fold or changing the CTA to be action based.

So many people say, “buy now” or “add to cart” when they should be thinking like the shopper. “Get mine now” “select my size” are great ones for e-commerce.

Using terms with the first person instills ownership and you’re telling them in a subtitle way that the item is already theirs.

How long do you wait in between changes?

Most changes should be tested before implemented. If a change wins out then frequency wouldn’t be a factor.

With that, when I take on a site sometimes there are some blazingly obvious best practice changes that can be made.

In those scenarios i will look at the impact of the change and prioritize each one.

Implement highest impact first and monitor behavior. Timing to incrementally roll out the next changes is based on traffic.

A site with 10,000 hits a day I will need to wait longer between changes than I would a site with 80,000 hits a day.

It is basically wait for a result before moving on? Could be a day, could a week?

Wait until you have a true understanding of impact with the change before moving forward.

The hard thing about these general questions is that my response would be difference based on a large variety of factors, ya know? Goal of the funnel, steps you want users to take, traffic volumes, industry, etc.

With that I will say, if you make too many changes without enough data to establish statistical significance and something goes wrong you can’t attribute which change caused the drop and vice versa if something caused an increase.

A solution could be multivariate testing.

Then you can run combinations of changes in one test but you’ll have to run it longer.

If you have a specific use case in mind I’d be happy to give better specifics. I know sometimes these general responses aren’t very helpful.

What safeguards if any do you implement so you can isolate results if you were to move the needle, how do you determine it was your work specifically that did it?

First off, I want to apologize for the delay.

I am working with a client this week to go through RFP’s for a new esp and it’s grown into more meetings than I anticipated.

I’m going to run through a few of the quicker answers now but I have a 5 hour long flight home tomorrow and I’ll be able to get to everything then.


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